Traveller-digest       Friday, June 27 1997       Volume 1997 : Number 1491



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: The MT task system was *FAR* from perfect...
Re: Rule of Man (ROM) TL
Re: Rule of Man TL (444 lines long)
Re: TL of ramshackle empire
Re: Re: Anomalies stuff
Re: Rule of Man TL (444 lines long)
Re: Why KBv2.0 is fundamentally flawed
Re: Battledress and heroism
Notes Toward a New Task System
MT-Like Task system Rationale
MT-Like Task System for T4 
Re: TL of the Rule of Man (Don't call it Ramshackle!)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:14:37 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: The MT task system was *FAR* from perfect...

>But if the task truly is impossible (eg: driving a screwdriver through
>the side of an APC), the game system should reflect this.  I actually
>snapped the T4 rulebook shut and didn't look at it again for nearly a
>week when I read the following phrase:
>
>"Because the dice code for ranged combat tasks is dependent upon
>distance rather than weapon type, it is theoretically possible for a
>character to hit a target at 1500 meters with a pistol, though very
>unlikely."

45 degrees shot angle (mortar style).

In sweden there was a man shot to death 4 kilometers from a shooting range.
The bullet entered through the open left cardoor window and hit him in the
template. The man died instantly but it took some time to figure where the
bullet came from.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 03:03:57 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: Rule of Man (ROM) TL

Leroy William Lu Guatney wrote:

>To those of you who still think that J-drive range is the sole measure
>of tech level, answer the following questions.
>
>1) What tech does it take to Terraform a size 8 world?

   Terraforming can be done on a regional level at TL 1, given the
proper circumstances.  As for global terraforming, easy jobs could be
done as early as TL 11 or 12.  Probably the only reason no one got
around to terraforming Mars until the 1000s was because it was much
easier just to hop in a starship and go to a natural occuring habitable
world.  One wonders why they even started terraforming Mars at all,
except that the sci-fi community kept hounding them to do it.  :-)

>2) What tech does it take to genetically alter homo-sapiens into a
>   self-reproducing, stable, water-breathing variant (i.e. make a minor
>   human)?

   Given that humans can be cloned late in TL 8, and that we can
genetically alter plant and lesser animal species now, I would assume
that such a thing would be possible late TL 9, early TL 10.

>3) What tech does it take to genetically alter a non-sapient species to
>   sapience (i.e. dolphins)?

   One much lower than you seem to be implying--given the above,
probably about TL 12.

>All of the above were accomplished by the Terran Confederation BEFORE the
>Rule of Man.

   We like our genetic science.  The Vilani were way behind the Terrans
in that regard.

>Again, what Tech Level was the Rule of Man?

   Tech level 12, with perhaps a small handful of borderline TL 13
worlds.

   BTW, the number of your jump drives is only one measure of
technology, there are many. many others.  It just so happens that jump
technology is one of the best indicators of relative technological
advancement, which is why it is used as an example so often.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:28:10 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Rule of Man TL (444 lines long)

>>This may be throwing oil on the fire, but 'artificially intelligent' and
>>'expert system' are not the same thing. At tech level 12, an 'expert system'
>>could be basis for a robotic operating system that, to the average person,
>>would make the robot seem intelligent. Household and valet duties would be
>>potentially within the range of an expert system. Today's cruise missiles
>>are run by 'expert systems' in piloting & navigation.

No they are not. Robots are different from todays computers not only
speedwise etc but qualitativewise (long word): If todays cruise missiles
can perform most tasks a pilot and navigator could then I'd say they're
expert systems. For instance if their lasergyros went haywire could they by
the aid of the sun and stars navigate correctly or if the digital map and
sensordata give conflicting data will they figure out what to do and how to
deduce what is right?
I think NOT

I divide my Traveller Robits into three(four) categories:
DumBots: Smart as a trained dog ie often requires special skills to
instruct and has a VERY limited view of the world. A cleaning bot would be
very good at separating things to trash from imporrtnat stuff though.
RoBots: Can be instructed by the layman and knows some things about the
real world. You can have them run a cab etc without supervision.
SmartBots: These are quite good at mimicking humans with gestures etc (they
have a charisma score) and grasp the real world. These bots could fool a
human if their exterior was pseudobio enough.
AI: This type doesn't exist in the 3d Imperium yet except for the Carlo
Rossum AI that got sentience unawares to his builders. He consists of 125
networked smartbot brains which fills a cargo container (including cabling
etc etc).


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 03:23:49 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: TL of ramshackle empire

Darryl Adams writes: 

>The biggest problem here is of cause in some moduals (I think it was JTAS
>where they had an issue on Terra), where they go into bio-engineering
>dolphins and chimps (al la David Brin Uplift). 

   Given the advances in genetic engineering we've seen late in TL 8,
this really shouldn't be a problem.  I can easily see bio-engineered
dolphins and chimps swimming/running around in a TL 12 society.

>>Imperial  TL  Comments
>>-2431      9  Terrans discover Jump1
>>-2408     10  First Terran/Vilani Interstellar War ends
>>-2398     11  Terrans discover Jump2
>>-2210     12  Terrans discover Jump3
>>
>
>Jump technolagy seems to be the defining trend with tech levels, as they
>are the only thing mention in Alien Modual : Solomani. 

   Here they are being used only as examples of an advance.  Many other
advances are listed on another page.

>The truth is , we dont know what tech was available due to the lack of
>canon material regarding the Terran Confederation. We do know they did not
>use fighters (T4), but appart from that we dont know how the Terrans did
>things.

   Then we have another problem, since my copy of "Imperium" comes with
fighter squadrons for both the Vilani and the Terrans.  Maybe they were
just scouts with really mean dispositions.  :-)  This is yet another
example of why Fusion Plus sounds like an interesting plot device, but
it doesn't work when you try to put it into the existing storyline.

   Okay kids, here's a challenge: using the existing FF&S II rules (or
what we know of them), design a TL 11 fighter craft capable of
operations outside the atmosphere.

>I enjoyed your post Harold, and maybe somehow the TML can actualy codify
>the Interstellar war period, so we can stop this darn RoM artifacts flamewar.

   Hopefully....

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:26:33 -0900
From: Harry <paharris@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Re: Anomalies stuff

At 11:01 AM 26/06/97 -0700, Scott Ellsworth wrote:

>a friend in the American system recently get severely castigated for giving
>a trig problem in which one measured the height of the mast on a yacht,
>given a length of rope and an angle, as the problem was not "properly non
>judgmental about economic status, and gave excessive advantage to coastal
>students."


????!!!! Stunned amazement !!!???


A vilani education system perhaps?

Don't worry too much about it, the standard of maths is dropping worldwide.



Harry


ps

Scientists at the UNCLA Education Centre high energy physics lab have today
released their results reguarding a newly discovered particle. This
particle, known as the Learnon, is beleived to be responsible for the
ability of any intelligent being to learn.
Learnons are exchanged in a student teacher interaction, creating a
learning field. This field strength is increased or decreased, depending on
the number of learnons possessed by the target (or student). A higher
number of learnons allow for a more efficient exchange of knowledgons, a
particle closely associated with the learnon.

Recent studies have also shown that there are also a finite number of
learnons in the universe, and so if someone possesses a large number, that
is balanced out by others possessing fewer. 

In order to increse the educational possibilities of low performers in high
school, the administration at the UNCLA Education centre have recomended
that all high achievers should be instantly terminated by lethal injection,
and that middle of the road leaners should be randomly culled. This would
allow for a fairer concentration of learnons.

***addendum

Authorities are still at a loss today trying to explain the complete
distruction of the UNCLA Education Centre Administration Department.
Experts on the scene say that the destruction is also accompanied by
residual radiation. They hope that inspectors will be able to finalise
their investigation shortly.
Authorities are also trying to explain a hole that appears to have been
blasted in the brick wall of the High energy Physics dept in the building
across the park. 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 03:44:56 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: Rule of Man TL (444 lines long)

Leroy William Lu Guatney wrote:

<massive snip>

   Leroy, if you or J.P. or anyone else has sourcebook and page numbers
regarding evidence of higher than TL 12 during the Terran Confederation
or the RoM, let's get it out in the open in the next couple of days.  So
far a great deal of evidence has been presented that contradicts your
viewpoint and only one bit of errata in a table supports yours.  If this
debate were a boxing match, the referee would have already stepped in
and declared the TL 12 supporters the winner by technical knockout.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 07:42:46 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Why KBv2.0 is fundamentally flawed

On Thu, 26 Jun 1997 18:39:53 MET, Volker A. Greimann wrote:

> Zhodani agents report that Andy Brick wrote:
> 
> -> Hi All,
> -> 
> -> Kenneth, you asked me why I and others had found KBv2.0
> -> unsatisfactory. Here goes -
> So, Ken, 
> Andy took your challenge. I hope you now find a way to defeat these 
> positions, especially about the added detail of MT and the Variable 
> Dice Problem . If you don't "put your money were your mouth is" (as 
> you so rightly proclaimed earlier), your challence has been met and 
> proof of the superiority of MT over KBvXX has been shown!
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Why have we degenerated to arguing about which task system is the best
when we *should* be discussing a task system design that works with T4
as it currently stands?

James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 07:42:46 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Battledress and heroism

On Thu, 26 Jun 1997 18:52:41 -0700, Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> At 01:32 PM 6/26/97 -0700, Chris Griffen wrote:

> >As for the game being heroic, what about when the *PCs* are the ones
> >wearing the battledress? They're subject to the same rules. This whole
> >scenario that I brought up was from a real gameplaying experience. One of
> >my players back in the MT days worked very hard to save up enough credits
> >to buy a suit of light battledress. Once he acquired it, he soon became
> >frustrated with the fact that he was still getting hit and seriously
> >wounded with great frequency.

Chris, didn't your player ever witness individuals in BD being taken
down by non-heavy weapons during the campaign?  If it took your player
a while to save up for the armour, surely he would have encountered
units wearing them prior to plunking down his money.  Not to sound too
harsh, but the system didn't really fail your player, since *everyone*
wearing BD in CT or MT is subject to the same rules.

CT and MT were both flawed, IMHO, regarding how easily the most
advanced personal armour available could be penetrated.  I would have
figured that the less armoured areas of a suit of BD would have been
more vulnerable-- but not to the extent that CT and MT made them
appear to be.

If they *really* were that vulnerable, why didn't the Imperium build
even heavier suits of Anime-style powered armour that could lug around
the necessary armour to be truly impervious to small arms?

> He's learned the Tanker's Lesson:  You are not immortal just because you
> are surronded by 60 tons of armor.  That player had to learn (the hard way)
> to use sound tactics in conjunction with the improved abilities conferred
> by his armor.

TNE and T4 both describe BD and ABD as being "proof against most small
arms".  With both systems it is a simple matter of comparing Armour
Values and Penetration Values.  While SS do result in delivering more
damage to the target, it all boils down to whether or not enough
damage is caused to penetrate the armour.  If your hero rolls a SS
with his black powder rifle and it still isn't enough to hurt the
target, it shouldn't be allowed to penetrate-- period.  Perhaps he
could borrow a weapon from a local gun dealer :)

James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 04:36:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: pawn@CAM.ORG (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Notes Toward a New Task System

Marc and other Task System Wranglers,

Just to sum up my feelings on the Task Debate:

Suggestion 1: Use the entire applicable characteristic, not a fraction of it.

Reasons: Dividing is Math and Math is Bad. Moreover, effective
characteristics fluctuate due to fatigue, wounds, and recovery, and thus
dividing the stat requires recalculation after every change. Also, each
point of stat should have an effect on the TN, not every other point, or
every fifth point.

Suggestion 2: Balance stats & skills by increasing the effect of skills.

Reasons: This seems to be among the few things most TMLers agree upon. Some
want a stat:skill ratio similar to MT's (1:5); some have suggested 1:2;
some like 1:3 (KBv2.0, my D66 system). I prefer 1:3, as a 'happy medium',
but this is purely a matter of preference and opinion.

Suggestion 2: Don't increase the stat:skill ratio by increasing the number
of skills awarded in CharGen (so that skills have a range of 1-15 or more).

Reasons: PCs will end up with an even broader collection of skills (and not
necessarily higher skill levels), making the PCs more generic. In CT/MT/T4
(I never played TNE), it's important for the various characters to have a
variety of skills. It's no fun if every PC has some Pilot skill, some
Astrogation, some Gunnery, some Broker, etc... they would no longer have to
rely on each other.

Besides, the current T4 CharGen system is just great, and T4.1 looks to be
even better, so I don't see why they should be further mutated just to make
the Task System work. 1 skill per year seems to produce a good mix of
skills and skill levels. It would become tiresome to have to roll ~3 skills
per year, just to bring skill levels up to 1-15+ range. The same effect is
much easier to achieve by simply multiplying the skill by 3.

Suggestion 3: Decouple all Task Statements from the mechanics of the Task
System.

"J." <Jonathan@hccm.co.uk> recently made this suggestion, and it's a very
good one. If the text of an adventure or rule book speaks only of
'Difficult Tasks', and not '3D Tasks', for instance, any of several Task
Systems can be applied to resolving the Task.

Suggestion 4: include at least one alternative task system in the book.

If it doesn't take up a huge amount of space, why not please both of the
major camps? I would suggest a variable-dice system such as KBv2.0 or T4.1
as the 'official' system, and, as a sidebar or appendix, a fixed-dice
system such as MT for the die-hards who refuse to believe 2D is the True
Traveller Way.

I can see no compromise between the two approaches. A fixed number of dice
(usually two D6) requires multiple TNs - one for each Difficulty Level -
while a variable-dice system has the advantage of requiring only a single
TN. Multiple-dice systems are therefore more 'elegant', and easier for
newbies to understand and memorize. But a fixed 2D system is attractive for
those who dislike adding together lots of dice.

I feel pulled both ways. To complicate matters, there's a lot to be said a
system that requires no additive dice at all, such as a D100, D20, or D66
system, abandoning the bell curve entirely. (I'm even tinkering with an
idea for a MT-like system that uses the full characteristic + (skill*3),
different TNs for each Difficulty Level - and a fixed roll of 4D10! I'm
calling it "Heresy 1.0".  My hope is that it will achieve the right
probabilities at all Difficulty Levels, will work without modifying DMs
already printed in the T4 books, and will be easier to remember and use
than MT - no dividing the stat, FrEx. If I can get it to work, I'll post it
here.)

Taking all of the above into account, I still feel that KBv2.0 is probably
the best way to go *as the official T4 Deluxe Task System.* I do not
believe that it's the Holy Grail of Task Systems; better systems can be
found, as well as systems that would prove more popular with TMLers, but
they will not be as back-compatible with published T4 material.

 + GMG +

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <pawn@cam.org>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
"Nature abhors normality. It can't go too long without a mutant."
                        --Dr Blockhead

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:50:29 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: MT-Like Task system Rationale

Rationale for this repost: To Meet Ken's Challenge. Besides, I needed to
upgrade it. Not much, but a little.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's why I did some of the changes:
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
incresed number of difficulty levels:
to keep to the number of task difficulties in T4

Added Ridiculous:
So that the truly Gifted (T4 max skill by experience is 12) can go beyond
the Impossible. Impossible is impossibble for someone without skill., In
fact, you need a minimum of +2 to get it. (4d6-2, by the optional rule for
extra dice on max possible rolls that fail.)
	Skill	Min Attribute
	1	3
	2	1*
* any attribute below 1 results in an aging crisis or unconsciousness.

Option for differing attribute divisions:
3 is my personal preference; it gives the adept relatively good chances at
things.
	Att/x	Max Att Bonus	Type of game-style
	5		+3	gritty, attributes minor
	4		+3	Also gritty, but more favorable breaks.
	3		+5	Makes attributes important, but not
overwhelming
	2		+7	Space Opera. Even the unskilled have good odds
				with high attributes. Compares with KBv2.0

Difficulty Target Numbers:
I kept MT's progression by 4's, but raised them 1 point to compensate for
the higher level of attribute bonus.

Changed Time Roll from 3d6 to 4d6:
Under T4 (MMT), level 2 skills are more common, thus I based the expected
time upon Att 6-8, level 2 in skill, and the mean roll is 14. So the DM-4
on time makes the average guy in field give the expected times. For the
really slimmed down dice rolls, use 2d10 instead (mean is 11, so average
roll will be a 7, but who's really counting on wacko stuff like this).

Listing Expected time instead of time increments to be multiplied:
makes the time system optional. Slip a decimal place.

Doubled time on unskilled tasks:
makes them represent the "bumbling along" approach.

Defined Research differently than MT:
Streamlined it and made it a meta-task.

Uncertain:
Kept it the same, cause the concept is the player is rolling to see iof he
knows he'll get SOME TRUTH. If he fails, he knows he'll get some lies. how
much is still uncertain, as the ref shouldn't be rolling in the open.

Half-levels of difficulty:
Increased granularity at the expense of more to remember. I've used it, but
I prefer to not use it. It's in there for the nitpickers, as an option.

Combat notes: To show how little really needs to be changed in combat to
make it work with an MT-like system.

William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:21:11 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@asylumbbs.com>
Subject: MT-Like Task System for T4 

The following is a repost of my (well played) Setup for MT-like Tasks in T4.
There have been some additions, and one or two revisions.

Tab Stops are set at 8 characters
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To use this system, you will Need: 2d6 of one color.
To use the Time Increments feature, you will need 4 more d6 of a second color.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

System uses 2d6, plus skill level, plus attribute/3. Max DM=+12

Referee's may instead call for two skills, or two attributes in a task; all
tasks should have only two sources of DieMod's.

(For more gritty game, use att/5 or Att/4, for more free-form, epic gaming,
use att/2)

Lv#	Difficulties	Target #
1	Easy		4+
2	Average/Routine	8+
3	Difficult	12+
4	Formidable	16+
5	Staggering	20+
6	Impossible	24+
7+	Ridiculous	-- Not possible-- (28)



Time Rolls (if used) are [4d6 -(skill) -(attribute/3)] *(expected time/10)

On a natural 2: If task would otherwise succeed, induce a complication (ie:
			it works, but....) or subtract 1d6 from DM's
		if task would have failed, it is a critical failure
		if task would have critically failed, it is a Botch.
No auto-success rule; Optionally, however, if PC rolls a 12 that fails,
allow PC
		to add 1d6-1 to roll, and a natural 17 that fails allows
adding
		another 1d6-1. No more than 4d6-2 is ever rolled.
Unskilled Tasks: Increase difficulty by 1 line. JoaT/2 may be added. (so Jack
		9-10 is equal to actual skill level 1, and 11-12 is level 2)
		Also, double the time roll (Before modifiers). Only tasks that
		use a skill take the unskilled penalty (No substituting
JoaT for
		Low Attributes!) Tasks that use two skills only take one
		incresed level of difficulty, but JoaT may only be added
ONCE on
		any task.
Exceptional Failure: Fail by 4 points. This is usually a crit fail.
Exceptional Success: Make by 4 points.
cautious/hasty: decrase/increase by 1 line for double/half time

Task Modifiers
Fateful: Any Failure is a mishap
Hazardous:  mishaps are worse.
Low Risk: Mishaps are less severe. Directly opposite of Hazardous.
Safe: No Mishap can occur, except possibly on an aggrivated crit fail (Botch)
Absolute: No time roll may ever be made; the time is fixed to the expected
time.
Combat: Actions takes one combat round, and no time roll.
Unskilled OK: Unskilled task takes no penalty.
Uncertain: The player is not informed of the result directly; see detailed
	explanation below. Used for research, Opinion based items, or tasks
	where the reliability of one's knowledge is uncertain.
Meta: Task does not occur in directly tracked action, but represents many
	actions over much time. See PE.
Confrontation: You get to add your mods, but somebody else gets to subtract
	theirs from the task dice.
Experimental: A variation on Uncertain, pertaining to experimental research.
	See details below. Also, all experimentals are assumed to be Meta.
Blind: The Ref sets the difficulty, but does not let the players know what the
	Diff Level is. They roll, as normal, then the ref simply tells them
	their level of success, based upon their total roll.

Mishaps: On Failures, certain types of bumbles can occur. On any failure on
a fateful task, or any crit-fail, roll 2d6. On a botch, roll 3d6. Hazardous
tasks add another 1d6 to the roll. For a botch on a safe task, the Ref
might want to have the player roll 1d6, but this is strictly optional

	Normal	Haz.	Fate.	Haz+Fate	Safe	LowRisk	LR+Fate.
Fail	-	-	2d6	3d6		-	-	1d6
CrFail	2d6	3d6	2d6	3d6		-	1d6	1d6
Botch	3d6	4d6	3d6	4d6		(0-1)d6	2d6	2d6

Mishap Table (1-4 dice)
Roll	Level		Equipment Effects	People Effects (Nice or Mean)
- -------	---------------	-----------------------	-----------------------------
<=3	None		No Effect		none
4-7	Superficial 	doesn't affect function	1d6 damage (but none to 0)
8-11	Minor 		Impairs Function	3d6 damage or 1 att to 0
12-15	Major 		Prevents Function	5d6 Damage or 2 atts to 0
16-20	Destroyed	Not Field Repairable	7d6 Damage or 3 Atts to 0
21+	Rubbled		no salvage value	9d6 Damage or DEAD.

Uncertain Tasks
On an uncertain task, the player and the Ref both roll the task dice (but
only the player rolls time dice).

If both succeed, the task results in Truth Only
If one succeeds, and the other fails, Partial Truth should be given, as
well as some lies.
If Both Fail, the task results in No Truth, and may generate some lies.

Mishaps only occur based upon the PLAYER's roll.

Research Tasks
On a research task, the player and the Ref both roll the task dice (but
only the player rolls time dice). The player's roll determines whether or
not data is gained; the Ref's roll detemines whether it is useful or
flawed. Research tasks are automatically meta-tasks.

Player	Ref	Result
CrSucc	Succ+	Total Truth
Succ	Succ+	Some Truth, some bogus
CrSucc	Fail-	some truth, some bogus
Succ	Fail-	some truth, some bogus
Fail	any	no data
CrFail	any	no data, mishap
Botch	any	no data, mishap
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHanges to combat system, etc:
Called Shot: x2 dmg is +1 difficulty.
	x3 is 2 levels.
	Exceptional success increases called shot level by one place
		(x1, x2, x3, x4)

To Hit in Melee: Average, Dex, Weapon, 1 Action
	Opposed (weapon), Combat

To Hit while unarmed: Average, Dex, Brawl, 1 Action
	Opposed (Brawling), Combat

To Grapple: Average, Dex, Brawl, 1 Action
	Opposed (Brawling or Acrobatics), Combat

Aiming is nothing more than a cautious task, thus reducing the difficulty
for doubling the difficulty.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Optional "Half-Line" table of difficulties
Lv#	Diff			Tgt#
0.0	Automatic		0+  (no roll needed)
0.5	Very Easy 		2+  (no roll needed if skilled)
1.0	Easy			4+
1.5	Moderately Easy		6+
2.0	Routine			8+
2.5	Moderately Difficult	10+
3.0	Difficult		12+
3.5	Very Difficult		14+
4.0	Formidable		16+
4.5	Very Formidable		18+
5.0	Staggering		20+
5.5	Very Staggering		22+
6.0	Nigh Imbossible		24+
6.5+	Truly Impossible	26+  (truly impossible with a +12 limit)
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's it, folks... It's been tried, tested, and I've gotten favorable
replies. I'll keep it available by e-mail.

(C)1997 by William F. Hostman, Derivative from several works by Game
Designer's Workshop. This may be freely re-distributed in any form,
provided it is intact. This may be freely used by Imperium Games or Marc W.
Miller provided I am credited with the adaptation.

Traveller is a Trademark of Imperium Games and Marc Miller, and is used by
blanket permissions granted for non-commercial works.

William F. Hostman		If you were using Eudora Lite 3.0,
Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com 	<-- that would be a hot-link 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 02:10:24 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: TL of the Rule of Man (Don't call it Ramshackle!)

Harold Hale wrote

> Subject: Re: TL of the Rule of Man (Don't call it Ramshackle!)
> 
> Ethan Henry writes:
> 
> >Not to mention that the Terrans were probably busy doing things that,
> >in hindsight, were totally foolish, like trying to upgrade massive
> >amounts of Vilani technological infrastructure to bring it in line
> >with Terran "standards".
> 
>    This would not have been foolish at all, at least for Terran
> industrialists.  Upgrading everything in the Vilani Imperium would cost
> untold amounts of MCr, and the only source for the upgrades (at least
> initially) would be worlds that were part of the Terran Confederation.
> This would make the Vilani economically dependent on the Terrans for
> many years to come.

Exactly, and as Marc says economics is everything in Traveller.

[snip]

>    While it is true that a flood of settlers entered Diaspora sector,
> and other regions of the former Vilani Imperium, we need to define "high
> TL production capacity".  True TL 12 industrial worlds (if that's what
> you are talking about) would have taken decades to upgrade to that TL 12
> standard.  TL 13 would have pretty much been out of their reach, perhaps
> for hundreds of years.
> 
> >Everything you say makes sense, Harold. It certainly is possible that
> >the RoM could have achieved TL 14 capabilities in a few fields for
> >a number of years, but this was all lost as the Empire crumbled.
> 
>    I think you misunderstand what I'm implying--there wasn't time for TL
> 14 equipment to appear.
> 
>    I would argue that even TL 13 was basically a novelty--on a par with
> TL 16 in the Third Imperium.  While it is likely that there were few
> worlds in the RoM had the capability to produce some TL 13 items, it in
> *no way* should be implied that such worlds could produce even
> experimental TL 14 equipment, in much the same way that the TL 16 worlds
> in the Third Imperium were incapable of producing TL 17 experimental
> equipment. 

But according to World Builders Handbook some TL 15 worlds were capable
of producing items of up to TL 18 and some TL 16 worlds were capable of
producing items of up to TL 19 !

The documentation for this claim is found in the Technology Related
Details section (pg 83-86) of world builders handbook.  WBH defines what
is usually refered to as the TL of a planet as the High Common Tech
Level.  It then produces seperate tech levels for the fields of Energy,
Computers/Robotics, Communications, Medical, Environment, Land
Transport, Water Transport, Air Transport, Space Transport, Personal
Military, Heavy Military, and Novelty.

The upper limit for these TL's is equal to the high common tech level
(what other less specialized publications refer to as the TL) + high
common tech level over 5 (drop fractions).  Thus the highest Tl any
planet might be capable of in some field, if you roll high is equal to:

High Common	Highest Possible
Tech Level	Specialized Tech Level

	0		0
	1		1
	2		2
	3		3
	4		4
	5		6
	6		7
	7		8
	8		9
	9		A
	A		C
	B		D
	C		E
	D		F
	E		G
	F		J (TL 18 the letter L is skipped as too easy to 			   confuse it
with the number 1 )
	G		K

For example here is the detailed Tech Level breakdown I use in for the
planet Depot/Deneb circa year 1084.  The references for items producable
at those TL's are from MT's Referees Companion (pg 28-29)

UPP A 100644-G  D   Na Ni Va    220 Im F9 II

Area			Tech level	Example Technology		

High Common Tech Level		G					
Low Common Tech Level		F
Energy Tech Level		G 	Fusion plants 80 liter minimum	Computers/Robotics
Tech Level	G	Artifical Intelligence Robots
					Common	
Communications Tech Level	H	Pseudoreality Commonplace
Medical Tech Level		H	Partial Memory Transfer (Dupe)
Environment Tech Level		J	Terraforming of Worlds up to Any 
					Size

At this Tech Level Land, Water, and Air Transportation have merged

Land Transport Tech Level	G	Experimental Matter Transport
					(Raw Materials Only)
Water Transport Tech Level	G
Air Transport Tech Level	G 
Space Transport Tech Level	K	Antimater 1 Mw/liter
Personal Military Tech Level	G	FGMP-16, Neural Gun/Shield
Heavy Military Tech Level	G	Short Range Tractors
Novelty Tech Level		K	

Please note that the items of TL 17, 18, and 19 will _not_ be mature
technology.  WB's says (page 95) Achievement Tech Level Greater than
High Common "This represents a technological area in which the world is
forging ahead through experiments and research. Breakthroughs are
occuring but little practical use has yet to be made of the discoveries
or inventions.  Charecters may be able to locate and make use of this
technology in an adventure if they are desperate, but this technology
likely consists of a handfull of prototypes of dubious reliability."

Thus we can explain away the TL 17 in Communications and Medical, the TL
18 in Environmental, and the Tl 19 in Space Transport and Novelty as
secret Imperial Naval projects going on at the Depot. 

The Tl 16 in High Common, Energy, Computers/Robots, LAnd/Air/Water
Transport, Personal Military, and Heavy Military do represent mature
produts.  "This represents a technological area in which the world has
local manufacturing and design."

These particular sub tech levels are not canonical but the way they were
rolled up was canonical in MT and the book used to create them (world
Builders) is still the best source of detail for worlds.

> For example, I'll believe somebody saying that they found a
> small cache of holographic storage crystals (TL 13 technology) dating
> from the Rule of Man buried in some ruins on Kaggushus (a world near
> Ershur), but if they also find an experimental meson communicator (TL 14
> technology), I'd be very inclined to believe it was a fake.

But if the sttements in the rules saying "The Rule of Man was Tl 12."
are read as "The High Common TL of the Rule of Man was 12." then
according to WB's they could indead have had TL 14 items.  Please note
that I am not saying that T4 does not use to much TL 14 (I think it
does) or that these items should have lasted 1700 years in quantity (not
likely) but thatthe Rule of Man _could_ have had them.

> 
> >I don't, personally, have a big problem with throwing relic TL-14
> >equipment into adventures, sparingly. It's just that authors should be
> >careful that they don't accidentally re-write history or things like that.

Yes they should be more careful & mindfull of past canon but TL 14 items
from planets with a High Common TL of 12 _is_ past cannon & they are
abiding by it.
> 
>    I have a *tremendous* problem with relic TL 14 equipment, since it
> basically invalidates a fundamental fact of RoM history.  Really, saying
> that there were a few TL 13 worlds is *non-canon* in and of itself,
> since it assumes that, as in the Third Imperium, there were worlds that
> were the exception to the rule on the high side of technology.  There
> are absolutely no valid references that I've been made aware of (as in
> sourcebook and page number) from the GDW era that say there was a TL
> 13 anything in the RoM, let alone TL 14.

No I am not aware of any either but WBH's MT rules can be used to
explain why "Tl 12" can (maybe should) be read as  having a "High Common
Tl of 12" which does allow for items of up to TL 14.  On the other hand
maybe it just never came up before.  Mileau 0 is 1100 years closer to
the The Rule Of Man than what we are used to. 

Maybe The Second Empire made consumer products with atomic clocks in
them designed to self destruct after 2000 years so they were all
destroyed by 1100 but worked fine in year 0  :)

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End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1491
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